Curse

DCynic · May 29, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Howdy guys, I'm pretty new to Guild Wars (like first or second week hahah) though an old MMO player, gave a few of the professions a shot but decided Dervish was the one for me. Managed to scrape in Norm prestige in a couple days along with the BMP scythes too which was nice.

However, away from my life story before I go into a complete rant, I've been tossing around PvE builds in my head based off what I think sounds good and a few things I've read up on and come up with these three for now though I doubt any of them is anywhere near perfect xD

Any thoughts would be great, lets hope I can get the formatting right so these show up properly ^^

[D Judge Dwayna; OgCikysM9eVe9d1D2cBdxcNgBA]
[D Judge Ursan; OgOikysMZUWe9ddgZfBdNgJTAA]
[D Judge Bal; OgCikys84eLvfXxdzF6ycHwA]

Axel Zinfandel · May 29, 2008, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Only thing wrong I see is that Ursan removes all enchantments :/

Konig Des Todes · May 29, 2008, 07:03 AM // 07:03

For the Ursan build, you shouldn't need anything other then Ursan and a rez, preferably not rebirth but don't matter. I suggest a Summon skill from the Asura PvE line and maybe going Warrior secondary for Signet of Stamina, to increase your health even more. Also, no enchantments work on Ursan.

Also, for the other two builds, I think only 3 attack skills are enough, I usually just use [Zealous Sweep][Victorious Sweep] and [Radiant Scythe] as my attack skills, but you can use Chilling Victory instead of Radiant, both deal good damage. Also, I suggest using another AoE enchantment skill, maybe [Aura of Holy Might] if you have factions, [Eternal Aura] also works there.

The build I usually use is...

[build prof=D Mysticism=12+1+2; Scythe=12+2][Zealous Sweep][Radiant Scythe][Victorious Sweep][Heart of Fury][Aura of Holy Might][Eternal Aura][Avatar of Balthazar][faithful intervention][/build]

Panais · May 29, 2008, 07:06 AM // 07:06

try bringing a rez, since its PvE u will need it because most pugs out here have a lower IQ than Koss

blurmedia · May 29, 2008, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Try not using balth -____________________-

Cebe · May 29, 2008, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCynic

[D Judge Dwayna; OgCikysM9eVe9d1D2cBdxcNgBA]
[D Judge Ursan; OgOikysMZUWe9ddgZfBdNgJTAA]
[D Judge Bal; OgCikys84eLvfXxdzF6ycHwA]

1. It's not bad. Only things I might change would be Chilling Victory - replace with [[Heart of Fury], and Mystic Vigor - replace with [[Aura of Holy Might (Luxon)]

2. Real Dervishes don't need Ursan Blessing.

3. [[Bulls Strike] is too good not to use with Avatar of Balthazar (it's better in PvP, I know, but still). I know it's Strength, but it gives Knockdown, which more than makes up for the small amount of +damage. Chilling must be a fair drain on your energy? Should really have Wild Blow in there somewhere also. If you have good enough Monks / party support you can do without Mystic Vigor. Also, [[Eternal Aura].

Would suggest the OP tries [[Avatar of Lyssa] for fun (and because it's better than AoB

). There will be a sample build in the stickied guide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

[build prof=D Mysticism=12+1+2; Scythe=12+2][Zealous Sweep][Radiant Scythe][Victorious Sweep][Heart of Fury][Aura of Holy Might][Eternal Aura][Avatar of Balthazar][faithful intervention][/build]

Radiant Scythe seems a waste...even after having used Zealous Sweep. After casting Balthazar and the enchantments energy will be a bit tight. Gogo Bull's Strike / Wild Blow.

TheJsp · May 29, 2008, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by blurmedia

Try not using balth -____________________-

Indeed Balth is for PvE not usefull
Try Reapers Sweep

la_cabra_de_vida · May 29, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Balth with frenzy, do it.

horseradish · May 29, 2008, 08:33 PM // 20:33

[Avatar of Lyssa] > PvE

really

Darkside · May 29, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

This thread makes me wannna cry...if you wanna run an avatar run one of these.

[D Lyssa; OgCikysMFfxc1c1DKDKuBAAAAA]
[D Melandru; OgCikysMJfFg1DKDKuBAAAAAAA]

Both are solid and you've got some optional slots to work with as well.

DCynic · May 29, 2008, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Perhaps I should have mentioned that I don't own factions, besides that however there are some good ideas here.

In relation to Ursan, I do have to agree with Celestial, takes away from the whole Dervish "theme" if you don't use Dervish skills. Want to avoid that if possible but at the end of the day, if it works better in PvE then I have little choice in the matter. xD

Would definitely prefer an Avatar build, without Bal if possible (nice speed but waiting for friends constantly is a pain, Pious Haste is good enough for running around if the need arises..)

Any ideas/thoughts?

blue.rellik · May 30, 2008, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

1. It's not bad. Only things I might change would be Chilling Victory - replace with [[Heart of Fury], and Mystic Vigor - replace with [[Aura of Holy Might (Luxon)]

2. Real Dervishes don't need Ursan Blessing.

3. [[Bulls Strike] is too good not to use with Avatar of Balthazar (it's better in PvP, I know, but still). I know it's Strength, but it gives Knockdown, which more than makes up for the small amount of +damage. Chilling must be a fair drain on your energy? Should really have Wild Blow in there somewhere also. If you have good enough Monks / party support you can do without Mystic Vigor. Also, [[Eternal Aura].

Would suggest the OP tries [[Avatar of Lyssa] for fun (and because it's better than AoB

). There will be a sample build in the stickied guide.

Radiant Scythe seems a waste...even after having used Zealous Sweep. After casting Balthazar and the enchantments energy will be a bit tight. Gogo Bull's Strike / Wild Blow.

Real players don't take it full stop

Cebe · May 30, 2008, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Real players don't take it full stop

So true, sir, so true.

Brian the Gladiator · May 30, 2008, 07:36 AM // 07:36

I believe the people in this thread fail to realize the entire purpose of [Avatar of Balthazar] and [Avatar of Melandru]. What makes these skills great is the inherent defensive capabilities they posses.

Remember, unlike a Warrior -- the first front-line attacking class ever created, the dervish has only 70 armor and no shield capabilities since its primary weapon is a two-handed scythe. This means that the class requires alternate forms of building defense.

Assassins are very similar to dervishes in the fact that they too are a 70 armor front-line attacker without shield capabilities. The biggest difference between these two classes however is the functionality. Assassins do not remain in the front-lines of battle very long and have quick and easy ways of retreating from oncoming threats via shadow-stepping. Dervishes unfortunately don't have this luxury innately in their arsenal.

Dervishes have to power-up their defense other ways. Luckily they have many enchantments and Elite Forms that can make them a bit more meaty. The two elite forms that stand out are [avatar of melandru] and [avatar of balthazar].

[avatar of melandru] keeps a dervish alive in two ways. It adds additional health which gives the monks ample amounts of time to heal and prot him. The second benefit is melandrus immunity to all conditions. This boosts the Dervishes defense greatly because he can not be struck with deep wound. Until a player learns and becomes experienced in high-end PvP, I do not believe you can fully understand how valuable this specific trait is.

[avatar of balthazar] is a wonderful elite skill as well. Many people do not give this elite enough credit imho. This skill gives the dervish the very thing he is lacking... Armor Level. With Avatar of Balthazar enabled, The dervish has an additional 40 armor boosting it from 70 to 110 AL... TO ALL DAMAGE TYPES. Not only that, but it grants a 33% speed buff which can be maintained 100% of the time if combined with [eternal aura].

With that said, I would like to talk about the specific builds in the original post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCynic

[D Judge Dwayna; OgCikysM9eVe9d1D2cBdxcNgBA]
[D Judge Ursan; OgOikysMZUWe9ddgZfBdNgJTAA]
[D Judge Bal; OgCikys84eLvfXxdzF6ycHwA]

These builds are missing a few essential things imho.

The first build is a solid try. I understand where you were coming from when you were putting these skills together. You figured out that you did need defensive spells on that bar to make it work. The problem here is with which ones you chose. Avatar of Dwayna is a great decision when attempting to relieve pressure from your monks. This skill, as well as Mystic Vigor, work on an individual basis in the same way a [song of restoration] + [ballad of restoration] paragon would for the whole party. Av of Dwayna also functions as an easy way to remove your own hexes. Faithful Intervention, unlike mystic regen and Av of Dwayna, is used as an, easy to maintain, anti-spike. I think this is probably the most valuable aspect of this build's defense and anything else is just unnecessary. The offensive attack are not very logical however. The ability to attack AoE is the Dervishes greatest asset. You need to utilize this in every way possible. Chilling Victory is great, and having a short casting follow-up attack is very smart as well. The only problem is, every dervish bar that is meant to deal damage needs to have A0E condition spread... preferably deep wound (the best condition in the game). To Accomplish this, these are the changes I would make.

[wounding strike][chilling victory][mystic sweep][signet of mystic speed][conjure lightning][heart of fury][faithful intervention][sunspear rebirth signet]
-- Because this build is less "tanky" and more "exploding with damage output" you need to remember to use all Minor Runes (with exception to your vigor rune) and all survivor insignias. Also, make sure to use a syche with a lightning modification on it. You can also use the cold damage or fire damage but change the conjure skill to match the damage type.

The second build is Ursan so... who cares!

The third build makes the same mistakes as the first. My corrections would be:

[chilling victory][pious assault][eremite's attack][vital boon][attacker's insight][eternal aura][avatar of balthazar][death pact signet]

P.S. -> being immune to conditions can have it's benefits. [Melandru's Dervish; AaAyEgDKNX77PRcLfFA]

blurmedia · May 30, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Balth is inferior to all avatars but grenth. stop using it ;__;

Darkside · May 30, 2008, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian the Gladiator

I believe the people in this thread fail to realize the entire purpose of [Avatar of Balthazar] and [Avatar of Melandru]. What makes these skills great is the inherent defensive capabilities they posses.

Remember, unlike a Warrior -- the first front-line attacking class ever created, the dervish has only 70 armor and no shield capabilities since its primary weapon is a two-handed scythe. This means that the class requires alternate forms of building defense.

Assassins are very similar to dervishes in the fact that they too are a 70 armor front-line attacker without shield capabilities. The biggest difference between these two classes however is the functionality. Assassins do not remain in the front-lines of battle very long and have quick and easy ways of retreating from oncoming threats via shadow-stepping. Dervishes unfortunately don't have this luxury innately in their arsenal.

Dervishes have to power-up their defense other ways. Luckily they have many enchantments and Elite Forms that can make them a bit more meaty. The two elite forms that stand out are [avatar of melandru] and [avatar of balthazar].

[avatar of melandru] keeps a dervish alive in two ways. It adds additional health which gives the monks ample amounts of time to heal and prot him. The second benefit is melandrus immunity to all conditions. This boosts the Dervishes defense greatly because he can not be struck with deep wound. Until a player learns and becomes experienced in high-end PvP, I do not believe you can fully understand how valuable this specific trait is.

[avatar of balthazar] is a wonderful elite skill as well. Many people do not give this elite enough credit imho. This skill gives the dervish the very thing he is lacking... Armor Level. With Avatar of Balthazar enabled, The dervish has an additional 40 armor boosting it from 70 to 110 AL... TO ALL DAMAGE TYPES. Not only that, but it grants a 33% speed buff which can be maintained 100% of the time if combined with [eternal aura].

With that said, I would like to talk about the specific builds in the original post.

These builds are missing a few essential things imho.

The first build is a solid try. I understand where you were coming from when you were putting these skills together. You figured out that you did need defensive spells on that bar to make it work. The problem here is with which ones you chose. Avatar of Dwayna is a great decision when attempting to relieve pressure from your monks. This skill, as well as Mystic Vigor, work on an individual basis in the same way a [song of restoration] + [ballad of restoration] paragon would for the whole party. Av of Dwayna also functions as an easy way to remove your own hexes. Faithful Intervention, unlike mystic regen and Av of Dwayna, is used as an, easy to maintain, anti-spike. I think this is probably the most valuable aspect of this build's defense and anything else is just unnecessary. The offensive attack are not very logical however. The ability to attack AoE is the Dervishes greatest asset. You need to utilize this in every way possible. Chilling Victory is great, and having a short casting follow-up attack is very smart as well. The only problem is, every dervish bar that is meant to deal damage needs to have A0E condition spread... preferably deep wound (the best condition in the game). To Accomplish this, these are the changes I would make.

[wounding strike][chilling victory][mystic sweep][signet of mystic speed][conjure lightning][heart of fury][faithful intervention][sunspear rebirth signet]
-- Because this build is less "tanky" and more "exploding with damage output" you need to remember to use all Minor Runes (with exception to your vigor rune) and all survivor insignias. Also, make sure to use a syche with a lightning modification on it. You can also use the cold damage or fire damage but change the conjure skill to match the damage type.

The second build is Ursan so... who cares!

The third build makes the same mistakes as the first. My corrections would be:

[chilling victory][pious assault][eremite's attack][vital boon][attacker's insight][eternal aura][avatar of balthazar][death pact signet]

P.S. -> being immune to conditions can have it's benefits. [Melandru's Dervish; AaAyEgDKNX77PRcLfFA]

AoB is garbage because you can get all the benefits of that particular avatar by using other non elite-skills without wasting your elite slot.

So why even consider Balthazar when you will never be able to match the dps of either Lyssa or Melandru no matter what skills you stick on a bar with it?

Bassu · May 30, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Omfg, stop this AoB-hate bullshit. It's a matter of preference, really...
Yes, you can get AoB effects without using avatar itself but you'll need to put 2-3 skills instead of 1. And if someone feels like getting higher armour and speed buff is what they want and need - let them use it, it's not a friggin PvP build and in PvE anything should work.

And btw, I understand that Lyssa > Balth in DPS, but Melandru? Explain.

Darkside · May 30, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassu

Omfg, stop this AoB-hate bullshit. It's a matter of preference, really...
Yes, you can get AoB effects without using avatar itself but you'll need to put 2-3 skills instead of 1. And if someone feels like getting higher armour and speed buff is what they want and need - let them use it, it's not a friggin PvP build and in PvE anything should work.

And btw, I understand that Lyssa > Balth in DPS, but Melandru? Explain.

I don't hate AoB it's just not as good as most of the other Avatars. Lets look at the bonuses

+40 armor: That's great...but you can easily get +24 armor from [skill]conviction[/skill], [skill]great dwarf armor[/skill]...etc without having to use an elite.

33% increased run speed: No use for PvE unless you wanna run someone...and if you are running someone you will probably be using a run build with a more useful elite like [skill]Vow of Silence[/skill].

Changes damage to holy: Useless...you should have [skill]Aura of Holy Might[/skill] on your bar which will do that and up your damage considerably.

As for [skill]Avatar of Melandru[/skill] builds having higher dps then [skill]Avatar of Balthazar[/skill] just take a look at [skill]Wearying strike[/skill] It can be spammed twice as much as [skill]Pious Assault[/skill] (which seems to have become a staple skill on garbage AoB builds).

Bassu · May 30, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

+24 armour is not +40 armour and beside that:
- you're wasting an important stance slot (which in case of dervishes is mainly Flail which is an awesome IAS, especially when used with AoB)
- enchantments are strippable and 1s is easy for AI to interrupt (I know you cast it before aggro, but there are fights that are longer than GDA's duration)

Speed buff can be very handy, especially in HM where mobs move much quicker and casters tend to kite a lot. As we all know, success depends on how fast you can take down the most dangerous foes.

And I won't agree that Melandru has higher DPS potential than Balthazar. Wearying Strike's DW duration is shorter than Pious Assault's one, thus it doesn't really increase your damage potential.
Moreover, Melandru is 25e - you need to auto-attack for a few seconds to dish out your attacks, whereas Balthazar is 15e cheaper (not to mention that you should use Attacker's Insight on AoB bar. AoM is an avatar which requires few staple skills to maximize its efficiency, thus you won't be able to put this amazing energy-management skill on your bar).
Holy damage is also nice, even though we know that (awesome) AoHM changes damage to holy. As a frontliner and aggro taker you will be hit with all of the damaging skills, and many mesmers in PvE have e-denial spells which might cause energy problems, especially while using AoM.

To sum up, I'm not saying that AoB is some sort of a great elite, but it has its certain uses and in few areas I find it very useful to have, even though I'm almost always running a tree.

Most of this is related to HM of course, because NM is, well, damn easy.

Tyla · May 30, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassu

- you're wasting an important stance slot (which in case of dervishes is mainly Flail which is an awesome IAS, especially when used with AoB)

And with AoB? You're wasting an elite on +armour. (Which isn't really good, especially for an elite spot with selfish defense)
IMS skills are useless in PvE.
For holy damage, AoHM > AoB, or even HoHF...

Quote:

- enchantments are strippable and 1s is easy for AI to interrupt (I know you cast it before aggro, but there are fights that are longer than GDA's duration)

And then again, not all mobs bring interrupts.

Quote:

Speed buff can be very handy, especially in HM where mobs move much quicker and casters tend to kite a lot. As we all know, success depends on how fast you can take down the most dangerous foes.

You can always take an Elementalist with Deep Freeze, or whatever snare instead.
That snares them, and benefits not only you but your party.

And even then, [[crippling sweep]. Crippled enemies aren't going to move fast.

Quote:

And I won't agree that Melandru has higher DPS potential than Balthazar. Wearying Strike's DW duration is shorter than Pious Assault's one, thus it doesn't really increase your damage potential.

Deep Wound duration is meaningless, because that enemy will probably be dead within 5 seconds of the DW being inflicted.

Quote:

Moreover, Melandru is 25e - you need to auto-attack for a few seconds to dish out your attacks, whereas Balthazar is 15e cheaper (not to mention that you should use Attacker's Insight on AoB bar. AoM is an avatar which requires few staple skills to maximize its efficiency, thus you won't be able to put this amazing energy-management skill on your bar).

And with AoM, your DW is more spammable for more kills, you are immune to conditions and have +100 health, which is the icing of the cake.

Quote:

Holy damage is also nice, even though we know that (awesome) AoHM changes damage to holy. As a frontliner and aggro taker you will be hit with all of the damaging skills, and many mesmers in PvE have e-denial spells which might cause energy problems, especially while using AoM.

[[protective spirit] + [[shield of absorption] = A champion aggro taker of any profession.
And worried about e-denial? Low energy set gogo. Or just pre-cast AoM before the fight.